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Why are there so many different Pentecostal organizations that do not even,or are have, or are called, after the name of Jesus Christ? (Eph 5:23)
Who should they be called after?
Eph 5:23 “Christ is the Head of the Church” “Jesus Christ”
Ricky Grimsley why dont we see the growing TX churches of Donald and Timothy K.
Because they are the churches Donald and Timothy K. Not the church of Jesus Christ.
David Griffin ?
Timothy K. Wiebe I did not stutter.
David Griffin I have nonidea what y’all are talking about
Timothy K. Wiebe Does your 502c3 says Jesus Christ or some other name?
Timothy’s church may be a pretty good one
I know. Many are ignorant.
And Troy Day, it may be pretty and it may be good but it is still an organization of Men and not of God.
David now you are typing in tongues
Troy Day Sorry, I got fat fingers.
you get eggsited as it seems?
David Griffin if you ever join a church plant (a new church) you might figure out some of these things. People get together as a church because they have a common purpose of reaching their own community with the Gospel and having a place for corporate worship. I know those things don’t mean much to some people even though they seemed to mean a great deal to Jesus Christ. When people partner together to accomplish these goals it is called a “church.” If they are soul winners, the church grows quickly and no longer fits in someone’s home. The people of that church need to protect themselves and each other from predators that would wish to sue them and take their homes and life savings if the partners make a mistake in letting a floor get wet and slippery. So, they incorporate to force the predators to sue the corporation instead of suing the individual members. Then, some knucklehead comes along with no desire to partner with real Christians and perhaps even some jealousy over their success so he complains and rants about things that he has no experience or knowledge about.
Jude 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Donald Phillips we are a multicampus ministry We’ve started several church plants in the past 20 years. What is your point?
Donald Phillips, Never heard of a plant church. //a new church// That must mean anyone can start a church.
//People create churches//
The church must be organized by Jesus Christ not people. Eph 4:11-14)
// When people partner together// (It’s call a 5013c, not for profit) and they, the people usually name the church by some other name than Jesus Christ. (Eph 5:23)
A corporation by definition is a business organization existing as an entity APART from its members. A corporation has payed members and exist for profit. The church of Jesus Christ has no payed ministry. ( 1Cor 9:16-18; Acts 20:33-34; St John 10: 11-13)
There are many Pentecostal organizations that do not bear the name of Jesus Christ. I have never seen one with the name of Jesus Christ in its title.
The common purpose of the church of Jesus Christ is to bring souls to God not to make a profit.
The Church of Jesus Christ must be a missionary church. I’ve never seen any Penicostal organization that has missionaries other than its own congregation. (Matt 28: 19-20)
And they are not One in Christ. If they were One in Christ they would all teach the same thing.
Many Penicostal member get discouraged or bent out of shape with an exciting organization and go create their own,//plant church//
The church of Jesus Christ will have a foundation of Prophets and Apostles.(Eph2:29-20. I’ve never been in a Penicostal organization were I ever saw or heard of any having a Prohpet or an Apostle.
Officers of the church of Jesus Christ must be called of God, (Ex 28:1; 40: 13-16; HEB 4:4) //People get together// and form a corporate church with its members. None of them are called of God as was Aaron.
If the Lord is their protector why do they need the laws of man to protect them? Is not God all in all?
Real Christians don’t sell the gospel of Jesus Christ.( see Acts 8:20) were Simon offered to purchase the Priesthood from from Peter and John.
While Penicostal have good intentions, it seems to me that by the scriptures they are not the true church of Jesus Christ.
David Griffin, you are either out of touch with reality or else you have an axe to grind on technicalities. Either way, I am done with this thread.
You wouldn’t know the “truth” if it bit you on the nose!
You wouldn’t know the “truth” if it bit you on the nose! You convinced me to change my mind.
Donald Phillips lol. Ahhh, Satan got your tongue?
No, and that’s a pretty lame response. It is not as cute as you think.
David Griffin, you claimed that the “purpose” of the church is only to win souls. That’s patently false! The bylaws of every church I have ever seen puts worship as the first purpose because worship fulfills the first and greatest commandment of all. That is the command to love the Lord with all of your heart (Matt.22:37-38). Furthermore, you are completely ignorant of the current language that is used for starting churches, yet you expect us to treat you like an expert when you don’t even recognize the word “church plant” and you obviously don’t know anything about “church planters.” Then, you expect people to simply trust the Lord to protect them from church lawsuits, but you personally have insurance on your car, your home, your health, and your life. Give us a break, David Griffin and quit pretending to be Mr. Know-it-all. We can see through your facade. I am willing to be nice and exchange pleasantries with you, or I can continue to point out the gaps in your costume.
Show us those ” bylaws of every church” Donald Phillips Wasnt aware of such autographs being still kept 2000 yrs later
I never claimed that I had seen any “bylaws” of the first church but I have seen plenty of church bylaws. Why are you attempting to pigeon-hole me on this? You failed!
The bylaws of every Penicostal organization are written by men, as you have said,//People create churches// a New plant church//
None of the Penicostal organization bear the name of Jesus Christ as this list of churches in Texas demonstrates as also the the list posted for the State of Louisiana.
The scripture is clear that Jesus Christ is the Head and must bear his name. Eph5:23
I don’t expect you to treat anybody like anything, Those are your expectations turning on you.
I personally have no insurance except on my vehicle of which is required by law. The Lord is very specific in how to treat everyone, even your enemies or have you not read the Sermon on the Mount?
I don’t expect anyone to trust the Lord, the Lord expects one to trust him and not in the arm of flesh and blood( men)Ruth 2:12; 2Sam 22:3; 2Chr 5:20; Job 13-15;
Ps2:12; 9:10; Prob 3-5; Ida 50:20; Dan 3:28; Nah1:7; 1Tim4:10; HEB 2:13; 1Pet 3-5,ect ect ect. Not me. But God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
And I am as transparent as they come.
If you are only willing to be nice when the Savior says to love all, why then do you not follow the Lord?
It’s not my points, it is the Lord’s words that I have posted here, and made observations and asked questions. If the words of the Lord offend you pr my observations and questions offend you, maybe you lack in the knowledge of the scriptures.
Not being facetious just asking?
David Griffin you have been listening to Church of Christ nonsense created by Alexander Campbell which makes it a manmade doctrine. Despite your false ideas, the Bible itself provides names of churches that did not have “Jesus Christ” in their names. For example, 1Cor 1:2 (KJV) “Unto the CHURCH OF GOD at Corinth…” Act 8:1 (YLT) “And Saul was assenting to his death, and there came in that day a great persecution upon THE ASSEMBLY IN JERUSALEM…” Act 11:22 (YLT) “And the account was heard in the ears of THE ASSEMBLY that is in JERUSALEM concerning them, and they sent forth Barnabas to go through unto Antioch…” Rom 16:1 (YLT) “And I commend you to Phebe our sister — being a ministrant of the ASSEMBLY that is in Cenchrea…” Act 20:17 (YLT) “And from Miletus, having sent to Ephesus, he called for the elders of THE ASSEMBLY…” Act 20:28 (YLT) ‘Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit made you overseers, to feed THE ASSEMBLY OF GOD that He acquired through His own blood…” 1Cor 10:32 (YLT) “…to Jews and Greeks, and to THE ASSEMBLY OF GOD…”
BTW, the YLT is the Young’s Literal Translation.
Sorry, I do not know an Alexander Campbell.
Your example of 1Cor 1:2 states that, ” unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.” You only posted part of that passage. Saints are certainly of the church of Jesus Christ the son who is also the God of the O.T.
I only use the
KJV of the Bible. All others after are just rubbish. Of which there are many.
All of the passages of scripture you mention have no reference to any Assembly, only in your Young’s translation , who is just another man, who seems to have changed and added words to the bible. Of which is also just rubbish.
So, the Corinthian church in the Bible was called the church of God at Corinth. No mention of the name “Jesus Christ” when Paul gives the name of that church. You failed to support your claim.
Donald Phillips keep reading.its members were called saints.
Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul called it “the church of God” and not the “church of Christ.”
Donald Phillips Penicostal organizations are all called by different names. None of the bear the name if Jesus Christ.
It’s not about “being nice” so much as it is about correcting your false doctrines on this public forum.
Sorry, I do not know an Alexander Campbell.
The scripture passages are not false doctrine.
And also the epistle of Paul the Apostle, to the Corinthians was written to the Saints.They were members of the church of God as verse two states, “to them that are sanctified in Jesus Christ, called to be saints,” you might want go back and read the whole verse.
I do not use any bible but the KJV. All Bibles after that are just full of the rubbish of men. The KJV Acts 11:22 states, ” P. Then tidings of These things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas,(a levite, see Acts 4:36) that he should not go as far as Antioch.”
Romans 16:1 states that “I (Paul the apostle) commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:” This States a church at Cenchrea it does not give a name of the church.
None of these passages of scripture ypu mention have anything to do or says anything of an ASSEMBLY. I guess that this person Young, whoever he is, seems he has changed and added words to the Bible. SAD.
Of course you don’t know Alexander Campbell because he died in 1866, but you certainly know at least one of his followers because you have the same false doctrines that he used to start the Church of Christ. You also think you are qualified to know which translation of the Bible is the best but your spelling and grammar show that your education could not possibly include proficiency in Hebrew and Greek. You claim all of the others are full of “rubbish” but you are obviously not qualified to be an authority on the subject since you have no linguistic training. You make bold claims but you have no evidence to support your claims. There is an Italian word for that. It is called “bologna.”
Nope, Don’t know any of Alexsnder Campbell’s followers either. But you seem to know about him.
People who are in the wrong always stoop to attacking the right. It shows ignorance. Like the liberal democrats.
And yes, the KJV of the Bible is the most correct. All others, especially your Young’s translation has added words and changed words to suit men’s personal hypocrite needs as you have shown. They are rubbish.
And I do agree with you the all of Penicostal organizations are false. For One, None of them bear the name of Jesus Christ.[Eph5:23] They all are called by some other name.
Two, none of them have of a foundation of Prophets Apostles[Eph 2:19-20]
Three, none of them were organized by Jesus Christ none have the same organization as Jesus Christ, they are organized by men,many men, they call it “planting a church” And their 5013c bears this out. [Eph4:11-4]
Four, ALL of them have a payed ministry. The true Church of Jesus Christ has no paid ministry.
[1Cor9:16-18, Acts20:33-34; St John20:11-13]
Five, must claim revelation from God [Amos3:7]Penicostals do not even have prophets.
Six, Penicostals do not have missionaries other than their own congregations
Seven, none of the Penicostal organizations are or even claim to be the restored church of Jesus Christ[Acts3:19-30]
Eight. The Penicostal organizations choose their payed ministers by the vote of their committies and/or board members. Officers of God must be called by God, as was Aaron[Ex28:1; 40:13-16; Heb4:4]
This is to name a few.
Who made you qualified to claim that the Young’s bible, with it changes and added of words to the Words Jesus Christ is truth?
Maybe you got a certificate or a diploma from some seminary lead by other men, a piece of paper to hang on your wall?
I make no claims. I have posted passages from the KJV of the Bible, which is more widely used than any other translation and is recognised by more people than any other, made observations and asked questions.
And Bologna, is a town in Italy it got its name because of the sausage they make.. LOL.
If you notice, which I think you haven’t, the Lord uses the weak things of the world to bring to naught the mighty and strong things of the world. I.E. Jesus Christ himself,as compared to the hypocrites of the Sanhedern, scribes, Sadusees, lawyers and Pharisees.
David and Goliath, Israel itself is small in comparison to its surrounding muslim counties and to the world.
You do error in not knowing the scriptures.
You use the word “ignorance” in the same sentence that you accuse me of knowing too much. Evidently, you don’t realize that “ignorance” is a lack of knowledge, so the term falls on you rather than me in the discussion of Alexander Campbell because I evidently read more American history than you do. Your lack of reading American history has left you “ignorant” of Alexander Campbell.
You claim that the “other translations . . . has added words” to the Bible. The problem is, you don’t know enough Hebrew and Greek to know if those words were accidentally left out by the KJV or intentionally added in by the “other translations.” You are ignorant of the knowledge and skills required to either prove or disprove your claim.
You claim that the Lord is using you, but I don’t see it.
One can have a lot of ignorant knowledge.
Please define “ignorant knowledge.” If you wish to communicate with others you need to use terms and phrases that are commonly understood. You cannot make up terms and phrases expecting everyone to understand you. That is poor communication.
Donald Phillips knowledge of the ignorant.
I don’t need to know Greek of Hebrew to understand English.
Nope, never claimed that the Lord was using me for anything, only repeated what He taught. Your Alexander Campbell was just another ordinary man, as you said he is dead.
Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Elias, Enoch and His whole city, Peleg and His whole city, Just men made perfect, John of the island Patmus and others have never tasted death and none of them spoke Greek.
And proof is in the pudding. Your own examples of scripture of Young’s translation shows he changed and added to the Lord’s words.lol
Your claim that the name of the church must include the name of “Jesus Christ” is a false claim that was first made by Alexander Campbell (the founder of the “Church of Christ” or the Campbellites). If it walks like a duck…
You are wrong again. I made no such claim. See Eph5:23.
Yep. You are right, if you quack like duck, walk like a duck, you must be a duck, and not a saint.
Here is just one of your quotes: “Why are there so many different Pentecostal organizations that do not even,or are have, or are called, after the name of Jesus Christ? (Eph 5:23)”
You claim the church must have “Jesus Christ” in the name? Go join the Mormons.
Lol. At least they bear the name of Jesus Christ.
…and that is not a biblical requirement. So, you are demanding more than God demands. That is legalism.
I know a forum you should try out. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1549712268676867/members/
Donald Phillips Again, Penicostal organizations can not even pass the test if the seventeen point to the True church of Jesus Christ. Of which are all biblical. Google seventeen points to the True church
The “Seventeen Points to the True Church” is a tract that is handed out by Mormon missionaries. You have been duped!
Donald Phillips the scripture do not lie. Unless you havevone of those with the words added and changed.
You have no way to prove any addition or subtraction without dependable copies of the originals.
Donald Phillips KJV is the closest one is going to get. The originals are lost in antiquity.
Donald Phillips How do you know so much about the mormons? Are you in the closet?
Reasonable copies of the originals can be purchased at any bookstore. Some people even know how to read them…
Donald Phillips originals of what?
Stick your head in the sand and plug your ears if you wish, but that does not change the truth that we have dependable copies of the original texts of both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
Denying that we have dependable copies of the original texts is just another lie that you learned from the Mormon missionaries.
Donald Phillips Sorry. There are no original manuscripts of any portion of the writings of any of the books in the KJV. NONE. And of the other thousands of translations come from the KJV. such as your YLT, Gideon, New translation ect ect. There are thousands of them.
That is a flat out lie!
We have the exact text that the KJV was translated from, and it is called the Textus Receptus. We do not have the original documents from the hands of the apostles, but we have dependable copies of those, and we have the exact text that was used to translate the KJV.
Donald Phillips As You said,//We do not have the original documents//
There are no original documents. The Textus Receptus means “Recieved Text” of which come from the German Luther bible originally in about 1516 A.D. from the Greeks being writtenn by a Catholic scholar.
There are over 5700 manuscripts of which none are identical. Care to try again?
You can’t just make up stuff and get away with it. Some of us know the facts even if you don’t! The TR was not a German text, and it had nothing to do with Luther’s Bible. It did have some consideration for the Jerome’s Latin Bible called the Vulgate, but nothing to do with Luther’s German Bible. Where did you get those lies?
Donald Phillips Wikipedia.
LOL! Wikipedia is filled with errors. It is written by common unlearned and uneducated people that often have no expertise in the field that they are discussing. Try writing a college term paper and use Wikipedia as a source. You will get a big fat F!
BUT, YOU LIED AGAIN because this is what Wikipedia says about the translation: “Like Tyndale’s translation and the Geneva Bible, the Authorized Version was translated primarily from Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic texts, although with secondary reference both to the Latin Vulgate, and to more recent scholarly Latin versions; two books of the Apocrypha were translated from a Latin source. Following the example of the Geneva Bible, words implied but not actually in the original source were distinguished by being printed in distinct type (albeit inconsistently), but otherwise the translators explicitly rejected word-for-word equivalence. F.F Bruce gives an example from Romans Chapter 5:”
You claim the church must only use the KJV? Go join the Mormons.
Nope. Never made that claim. Only that I used the KJVwhich is the most correct. All others after it are tramslated by men who gave changed and added words.
Read the preface to the KJV. The translators even claimed that it was translated by men.
The men that translated the KJV would be shocked to see the way some people talk about their work as though it was equal to the copies of the original documents.
Donald Phillips the original manuscripts will probably never be found. The KJV is the most correct. Although it was translated by 160 men into old English from German which was translated from Greek, which was translated from Latin,which was translated Hebrew, ect,ect,ect.
There are thousands of other translation of which like Alexander Campbell’s were words were added and changed, corrupting the words of God to suit their own ideas.
You could not be further from the truth! We have dependable copies of most of the OT and the NT. The Dead Sea scrolls proved that their were no drastic changes in the OT documents that had been passed down for centuries. You sound more and more like a Mormon.
Donald Phillips Your own post reveal that Alexander Campbell changed and added words.
Your own posts reveal that you follow his doctrine.
What is your belief about water baptism? Is it a requirement for salvation? Does it matter where you receive it?
Donald Phillips It does not matter where one is baptized The Savior was baptized in a river, by immersion(Matt 3:14-15)
And one must be baptized by one holding the authority to do so. Jesus could have had a priest of the temple or Sadusees or Pharisee, but they did not have the authority,they were all corrupt. Jesus walked about 60 miles to have John the Baptist perform the ordinance. John was ordai ed by his father Zacharias who was a temple worker. Not just anyone can perform the baptismal ordinance. It must be done by someone who has been called of God, as was Aaron, he being a HIGH PRIEST over the Levitical or lesser priesthood after the order of the Son of God. Or someone in the Higher Priesthood after the order of the Son of GOD, i.e. Elder, High Priest, Seventy, Apostle, or even a Prophet who have been called, set apart, and ordained to one pf these offices in the Higher Priesthood. A certificate issued by some college or seminary is not authority from God.
Published by Deseret (the Mormon publishing company)
This is where you buy that tract from the Mormon church: https://deseretbook.com/p/17-points-true-church-cards-floyd-weston-7862?ref=recommend-product&variant_id=101570-12-pack
I see your problem now, David Griffin. You are a closet Mormon.
Actually the seventeen point were organized by four nonmornon college students who compiled the points as a college project.
The Mormon church is selling it, there’s your source.
It’s free yo anyone.
So now you are name calling. That’s what piece do when they are losing and or are liberal democrats. SAD.
I am not name calling, I was merely stating that you have all the signs of being a Mormon.
What are signs of bring a mormon?
You have all the sign a of being wrong.
The “seventeen points” is a Mormon tract developed by Mormons and published by Mormons.
Donald Phillips Nope! Four nonmornon college students developed the seventeen points as a class project. All seventeen points are only in the Bible.
Anyone reading this forum can follow the link above and read the truth! I don’t know who you think you are fooling with your lies!
Donald Phillips only thise ehp have been caught lying call others liers.
QUOTE: “Floyd Weston recounts the extraordinary experience of five college friends. Using only the New Testament as their guide, Floyd and four of his friends from college identified the key doctrines and organization of the Church established by Christ. Separated by the events of World War II and the pursuits of careers and families, the friends re-unite and discover that in their individual quests to find the true church, as described in the New Testament, each had joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. An inspiring and faith promoting story.”
This would be correct. They were not Mormon when the seventeen points where collated. They had found that the list of seventeen points they made were all found in the same church years later.
Floyd Weston published the 17P through the Mormon Deseret Publishing company years after the incident supposedly took place. It was never made public until after it was already Mormon propaganda! So, it is a lie to say it was “done” by nonMormons.
And as you yourself, have found them, the seventeen points, on the internet, they are free to amyone.
It is Mormon propaganda, and you are either a closet Mormon or a practicing Mormon pretending to be a Pentecostal!
Either way, you going to go to hell when you die.
You need the real Jesus!
You need the Jesus that is God in the flesh, not the spirit brother of Lucifer type of Jesus of the Mormon church!
You need the Jesus that died on the cross to pay the complete price for your sins, not the Mormon Jesus that only paid for half of it and left the rest for you to take care of.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men where by you MUST BE SAVED!
DonaldPhillipsThey// Separarted by the events of world war ‘ll and the pursuits of careers and families, the friends re-unite and discover that in their individual guest to find the true church….
That each has joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. //
THEY were not mormon when the seventeen points were collilated.
John 14:6 the Real Jesus is “the Way, the Truth, and the Life” and no man can come to the Father except by Him! You cannot get to heaven through the cultic false Christ of the Mormon church.
David Griffin the Mormons always exaggerate to make a story seem more emotional. If you fall for their lies, then they get your heart! Don’t fall in with those cultists!
Donald Phillips Penicostal organizations csn not pass the test of the seventeen points.
You are going to burn in an everlasting hell if you don’t get out of the Mormon church and get right with Almighty God through the real Jesus Christ of the Bible.
Donald Phillips well, it seems to me that they can pass the seventeen points of the true church.All Penicostal organization have different names on them for one.
Those 17P are all unbiblical and wrong, as I have showed you, but you can’t see the truth because you have been blinded by a cult.
Donald Phillips is there a fake Jesus?
Donald Phillips Dude! Your own statement reads that the seventeen points are from the bible. You’re an idiot.
2Co 11:4 “For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”
2Co 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Yes, the Apostle Paul said there is a fake Jesus, and you are evidently following a fake Jesus.
I urge you to repent and follow the real Jesus of the Bible.
You must have read my statement as thoroughly as you read Wikipedia when you that the KJV was translated from Luther’s German Bible even though nothing on Wikipedia says what you claimed. It was all lies!
You’re are definitely an idiot.
You are a lost soul bound for hell. I ask you to please repent from following the fake Jesus of the Mormons and accept the real Jesus of the Bible.
David, which King James Version do you use? No one today reads from the 1611 version, which also included the Apocrypha. The 1769 revision is the most common version of the King James translation, and this one includes thousands of differences compared to the original 1611 version.
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